Ma.Gnolia Data Loss, What Have We Learned?

, a social bookmarking service is down, lost all their user data and they don’t know if / when they can recover.

This is as bad as it can get for any Web 2.0 service (and more importantly for users), and the backlash against Cloud services has already started. Krish will do has a more thoughtful post soon, as a first reaction I’m now taking Stowe Boyd’s approach – a quick overview of how safe my own data is:

Local Docs
Despite preaching the Cloud, I still have tons of legacy data docs, spreadsheets, PDF’s dating back for 15 years or so. These are synchronized between two home computers, and I am using a mix of services: Syncplicity and Live Mesh (one should be enough, but I have my reasons.. this belongs to another post some day). I also back them up to the Web using Mozy. Finally, I have a local backup on a new 1TB external drive, my Christmas gift to myself, at a cost of 10cents per Gig. I don’t have to move a finger, all this sync and backup happens automatically, in the background.
Online Docs
I use Zoho for all my current document needs. Technically I could probably figure a procedure to duplicate this data, in fact in the early days I thought of using Syncplicity to sync between Zoho and Google Apps, but I ran into some trouble and have never completed it. I solely rely on Zoho in this respect. Am I in risk? I asked Zoho’s Raju Vegesna for a quick statement:

While we do backup the data, we don't believe in Restore it. In SaaS, taking down a system to restore data is a sin. Instead, we run multiple copies of the data simultaneously. If one goes down, we don't restore. Instead, we just move to the second copy and then build another active copy.
In Zoho case, we have multiple copies running in a grid (like Zoho Writer grid for example). If one DB/File System goes down, we move to another. Every grid has a backup. Then we have a backup grid for that data center which aggregates backup from individual grids (writer, sheet, crm etc). The back up grid then transfers the data to another data center (in New York).

Email
My favorite is Gmail, in fact I made it the single repository and searchable archive of all my correspondence since 1996. But I am taking some precautions: I have auto-backup ( via POP) to another Gmail account, one that I don’t ever use for direct emailing, only as an archive. Now, I can hear you – it’s the same provider – but frankly, I doubt Google would just disappear, the type of issues users often suffer are all account-related, so the Gmail backup helps with this.
That said, I also sync my entire Gmail account to Zoho Mail. Partly due to the way Gmail stores data, partly due to filtering ability within Zoho, I have all mail folders, including Sent Mail in sync at any given time, no matter which service I used primarily. A third option would be to occasionally run a copy of Thunderbird on my own PC, and create a local copy – I admit I am too lazy to do this.
Photos, Music and Movies
Cloud or not, I prefer to have these locally, due to bandwidth constraints. All media files are backed up to the external drive. Photos are also backup up to Syncplicity, and I have a copy at Flickr. (I wish Picasa would auto-sync). Music and movies are not backed online, so if the house burns, so does my entertainment – but, unlike documents, it’s just money, replaceable.
Paper Documents
I hate them. Solution: scan them via a cheap HP All-in-one into PDF format, then see point#1.

With all that, I feel quite safe. Do you? What’s your backup procedure?

Update: The comment thread below shows a lot of interest in the Gmail / Zoho Mail sync solution. See more details on this at the Zoho Blog.

@Dlmutart, true, thanks for mentioning it. Of course Picasa only syncs to Picasaweb, which is reasonable - but the 1G storage limit is not. The paid storage levels are simply not competitive with Flickr's Pro account, so for now I've stayed with Flickr.

How do you synch your Gmail account to Zoho mail? I have gmail for domains, and haven't figured out how to configure Zoho to backup Gmail? I searched your other post, and found a reference to the steps, but couldn't figure out how to back up the folders. There's no reference in the Gmail settings page to folders.

@redcrewster There is a workaround if you want to backup all mails coming from now onwards. Just setup a forwarder in your Google Apps account to send the mail to Zoho Mail. All the mails you receive from now will be there too.

I actually do a bit more - the problem with forwarding is that it only takes care of email you receive, but what happens to sent mail? I set up the Gmail (Google Apps mail) account in Zoho Mail as follows: pop.gmail.com; smtp.gmail.com; user = name@domain.com. On the Gmail side POP is enabled and email is left in the Inbox after processing. With this setup Zoho will fetch ALL my email from Google, including SENT mail. The problem with this setup would normally be that sent mail ends up in the inbox, so in Zoho I set up a filter where IF Sender = my name, MOVE to SENT folder. Now my Zoho and Google mail is always in sync, no matter which app I use to send / receive. The only thing missing is mapping the Gmail labels (folders). There is no automated way, but in Gmail I mostly use labels in connection with filters, so the workaround is setting up identical filters with the same criteria in Zoho. Btw, the same applies to backing up your Gmail to another Gmail account: you still have to recreate the filters / labels in the receiving account.

Yeah. I forgot about the sent mail. What will happen if we setup two filters in gmail (or Google Apps mail). One will take our google email in from and forward it to Zoho and other will take our google email in to and forward it to zoho. This way, you can have both sent mail and incoming mail immediately at zoho without waiting for POP to go and fetch from Google mail. Then your filtering can be used to sort within Zoho. I would prefer an easier option though. Cloud Interoperability is the keyword here.

Zoli/Krish - just listen to yourselves ;-) It should work like this.... log in to gmail, copy a unique code from within setttings. Log into Zoho mail and click "integrate with gmail" and paste in the code - all mail past, current and future should be synced along with all folders, filters, labels etc Forget the reality and envisage the ideal....

Ben, Amen. Thatz why I finished my comment with the sentence "Cloud Interoperability is the keyword here". In fact, we should be able to do it without going through the process of copying and pasting the code. A much deeper integration is the need of the hour.

@Krish - yes, you can use forwarding, but it's passive, one-way, whereas with my setup I was able to switch to Zoho Mail as the primary app when Gmail became Oopsmail, and still remain in sync.

@Ben -"Forget the reality and envisage the ideal." Nice... but while you wait for your ideal, a few practical steps (convenient or not) help users save their data now - in today's reality.

Zoli, Thanks for the info, that's exactly what I was looking for! I'm a magnolia user, who has lost her bookmarks, unfortunately without any backup. This week I'm working toward ensuring all my other apps/info in the cloud are backed up.

OK, I'm lost. When you say "I set up the Gmail (Google Apps mail) account in Zoho Mail as follows: pop.gmail.com; smtp.gmail.com; user = name@domain.com.", where are you doing that? I'm logged into my zoho account, but see nothing in settings for configuring pop or smtp servers.

Unfortunately, I've had no luck getting Zoho setup to backup my gmail for domains email account. I've logged into Zoho mail, selected Mail Settings > Common Settings > Mail Accounts and selected "Add Mail Account". After entering my username, password, and incoming and outgoing servers, I click "Save" and the message "Creating Email Account" displays for several minutes, then a "Read timed out" message displays. I've tried it over six times in both Firefox and Opera under Vista. No luck. Suggestions? Or can you point me to specific instructions on the Zoho site that explain the settings for a "gmail for domains" account. Specifically what specifically is expectd in the "username" and "email id" fields. Do the port numbers for the incoming and outgoing servers need to change?

@redcrewster, @info_lireo has just described the steps, although apparently he ran into some trouble. Wow, this post is turning into a Mail backup thread ... bear with me a little, I am getting you help from the Zoho Team.

My Zoho account is backing up my Gmail account, but I can't get the folders set up. I've set up the filter to move items to the "Send" folder in Zoho, but the Sent folder is empty. Questions: 1. What am I missing to get the my existing folders backed up in Zoho? 2. Is there an additional step for the filter I've set for moving "sent messages" to the "Sent" folder.

@info_lireo, for the filter to move mail to the Sent folder, use youe name label, not the email address. My setup: Sender Is Zoli Erdos Sender Is Zoltan Erdos use either condition Move to Sent Set to Read Does this help?

[..] : I love my Delicious bookmarks and would hate to lose themlike Magnolia users did. Although, just saving the bookmarks is not enough — I need the tags and descriptions. However, I never was able to connect my Delicious account to the Lifestream Backup. I reset my password to rule out password issues. It never worked. And this was another account that requires you ti give your password to Lifestream Backup. [..]

Ma.Gnolia Data Loss, What Have We Learned?

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